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Dr. Noelle Nelson
The Power of Appreciation and Listening
Contrary to popular opinion, “Show me the money!” isn’t the primary desire of most employees. Listening, showing appreciation and letting your staff know that you value them can mean so much more. The frenetic pace of the workplace has gotten out of hand, and it’s up to each one of us to take it back in hand, take a deep breath, and find the time to show people that we care – we value them as a person, their contribution to the organization is appreciated and we care for them as human beings. Dr. Noelle Nelson provides a needed and fresh perspective that can turn our enjoyment and the financial results of our businesses around. Enjoy this episode of the Manager Mojo Podcast!
TRANSCRIPT: Appreciation and Listening Matters with Dr. Noelle Nelson
Interview with Dr. Noelle Nelson
Steve Caldwell: Hello and welcome everybody to the Manager Mojo Podcast. Today I’m excited to interview Dr. Noelle Nelson and I know you’re going to have a lot of fun. Let me tell you briefly why I’m so excited to have Dr Nelson with us.
She is a psychologist, speaker and author of 13 books, including Make More Money by Making Your Employees Happy. She has over 25 years of practice as a trial consultant which has given her an inside look at what works and especially what doesn’t work in the world of business. Her approach to solving issues facing businesses today doesn’t come from an MBA perspective but rather from a very real world experience. What I’m interested in hearing and one of the ways that I became even more familiar with Dr Nelson’s work is from a recent article in the August issue of Success Magazine entitled “Happy At Work.” You’ll find Dr Nelson extensively quoted in this article and most of you as Mojo listeners already know that I recommend you have a subscription to Success Magazine. Make sure that you check out the article after our interview today. So, Dr. Nelson, welcome to the Manager Mojo Podcast.
Dr Noelle Nelson: Thank you Steve, it’s great to be with you.
Steve: I am so impressed by your entire body of work. Having written just one book myself and with my second one almost done, I can’t even imagine having 13 books already out. I want to congratulate you for that because that’s a heck of an accomplishment!
Dr Noelle Nelson: Well thank you. Sometimes it feels like more of a compulsion.
Steve Caldwell: You know, I understand totally! We’ll talk about some of the wisdom you’ve shared in your books and I’ll provide a link to your website in the published podcast. I want our listeners to check out your books. She has some awesome titles and books, and I know you’re going to enjoy them. One of my favorite titles is Got a Bad Boss? Work That Boss to Get What You What at Work. That’s awesome! So welcome again and I’m glad you’re here.
Dr Noelle Nelson: Thank you.
Steve Caldwell: To get started, I’d like for you to share with our listeners a little bit about what you’re doing these days and tell us a little bit about your work.
Dr Noelle Nelson: Well, I am working with attorneys in civil litigation and a lot of that involves business — all sorts of problems that can happen around businesses. Lawsuits that have to do with breach of contract, with wrongful termination, unjust enrichment, with eminent domain, with a whole host of things. Oddly enough, I still absolutely love it because I do get a perspective on the world of business that most people are never put into. I am very excited by the fact that, generally speaking more businesses now, not enough yet, but more businesses are understanding how very important it is to get their employees in a good place and help them stay there. And the easy word for that is happy.
So that’s what has me excited, especially Steve when I first started writing about appreciation, which is the theme that runs through all my work, appreciation as in valuing people, not as in simply saying thank you– which is important — but valuing people, really getting who they are and going with who they are. More companies are attuning to that. Well, frankly, I’ve been writing about this for about 20 years and the first 5 or 8 years we’re an uphill battle to get people to even think about the idea of appreciation of the workplace. So, what gets me going these days is knowing that concept is expanding and people are getting it, and the results in the workplace are phenomenal.
Steve Caldwell: Well, it definitely makes a difference, doesn’t it?
Dr Noelle Nelson: Yes! And what most people don’t realize, Steve, is that it makes a difference to the dollar, to the bottom line. In other words, the companies that are on The Best Places to Work List, for example, have significantly more profit and less absenteeism and all sorts of things. But most have significantly more profit. So, it’s not just that it’s a nice thing to do, which is all people thought appreciation was originally, but it is frankly a wise business decision.
Steve Caldwell: I think it’s actually the wisest decision you can make, not only for your business but for people in their careers. If they really ever accept the fact that valuing the other person actually lifts both of you up, great things can happen, don’t they?
Dr Noelle Nelson: Absolutely! Beautifully put, yes.
Steve Caldwell: So tell me, from your experiences, because I know that you have seen some of the not-so-good stuff as well as the good stuff. Contrast some of the things you’ve seen that have changed where maybe some things that people were doing that didn’t really resonate with the work force and how it actually hurt the business. Could you give us an example or two of that?
Dr Noelle Nelson: Sure, I think one of the easiest, because many managers don’t realize that they are doing this and they are certainly not doing it purposely or to be harmful, is they just don’t listen to the employee. So, I’ll be involved with a case where the line employee, the person literally on the manufacturing line knows that there’s a problem with part number 4. So they go to their supervisor and they say, “I’ll try to take it upstairs, but I don’t know.” And even though a number of workers have said, ‘We think there’s a problem with number 4,’ the manager, the supervisor say, I’m confident I just don’t have time for this. I’ve got other things that I need to pay attention to. I’ve got budgets to meet, blah, blah, blah… And then I get involved because there is a huge law suit because part number 4 did fail there was a fatality as a result. Then what happens, of course, is the manager is saying uh, uh, uh…..because he or she meant no harm and certainly wasn’t expecting such a horrible outcome. And it’s very easy to suggest to those managers that all you need to do is take an extra two minutes — that’s all it takes — to listen, especially when you hear something more than once, and then to thank the employee for paying attention. Because that’s what you want, isn’t it? you are engaged with employees who are engaged in the process of whatever it is that you service, manufacture or provide. So it’s wonderful when you have an employee saying, ‘Hey I think there is something wrong with part number 4.’ So, it’s often an education. What I have found is there very, very few what we might call ‘toxic managers,’ managers who really shouldn’t be in the workplace at all. Most people are simply not informed, not educated, as to the importance of some of this.
Steve Caldwell: Yes, communication. They don’t give you a handbook when you get promoted to management and say, ‘let’s talk about what communication means and let’s start talking about listening.’ I see almost nobody in business really educating their managers on the importance of listening.
Dr Noelle Nelson: It’s such a simple skill to learn, and most of the time when a manager is alerted to the need to listen and shown just a few ways how to do it, they do it. It’s not rocket science.
Steve Caldwell: Very few really good things in life are rocket science, are they? Just make me aware of it. I think that you’re hitting on a great point. The real problem is awareness, and so many managers just don’t have that awareness.
Dr Noelle Nelson: Right. Just for example, let’s say something really simple with listening. These days were all needing to multi-task whether we want to or not, and we are barraged with information that we do have to pay attention to. Well, listening means when that employee is in front of your face, you do not text. You do not hit your pocket every three seconds to see if the phone is vibrating. You simply stop everything else, look them in the eye and literally listen. You don’t have to do it for half an hour. You can say, ‘I am delighted that you’ve come to speak with me. This is great. I have about five minutes. Is that enough time for you?’ and the employee’s says yes, that’s enough time. Those five minutes are sacred and holy and devoted purely to listening to that employee. You would be astounded with the difference that can make.
Steve Caldwell: It is amazing that most of us don’t do this and I know, I couldn’t help but think as you’re talking. That same wisdom, that same advice surely would apply to our personal relationships as well, wouldn’t it?
Dr Noelle Nelson: Absolutely. There’s nothing worse than sitting at the dinner table across from someone who is texting.
Steve Caldwell: You just want to take that phone and crash it, don’t you? Pay attention for a minute.
Dr Noelle Nelson: You bet, what am I, chopped liver?
Steve Caldwell: Exactly. So Dr Nelson, those are great examples of listening and I really appreciate that. You mention a topic and I know you addressed it somewhat in the article of Success Magazine about engaged employees and that’s the goal. Some people who are listening may not understand what that term means. Would you give us your take on what it means to have an engaged work force?
Dr Noelle Nelson: An engaged employee is one who takes the success of the business or the department to heart as if it were their own. It’s that simple. In other words, an engaged employee is somebody who comes to work because they want to be there, because they feel like they’re doing something productive, something worth doing. They feel energized by what they do, they’re interested in the success of the company, and they know the success of the company brings more success to them. Therefore, they are engaged. They have ownership, even if they don’t own a single share stock or anything else. They feel ownership and with the feeling of ownership people step up to the plate. But that feeling of ownership does not come with your paycheck. It’s a totally different thing.
Steve Caldwell: Right.
Dr Noelle Nelson: I think the mistake that many companies have made is to think that they get a paycheck, what more do they want? Frankly, a lot more. You want more from your employee than simply to count their wages or input data. You want them to do it enthusiastically and preferably do it with giving you good ideas for the success of the future of your business, etc.
Steve Caldwell: I think some companies are trying to do it, but I think they could be missing the boat. Have you seen more and more companies do what I call trying to buy engagement? They’ll do free food or free drinks, or all kinds of little stuff at the workplace thinking that actually is in place of communication. Have you seen that?
Dr Noelle Nelson: Yes, and what’s behind that is an assumption by the company that they know what would make the employees happier or more productive, instead of doing simplest thing in the world which is to go to the employees and ask what it would take for them to be more enthusiastic at their work, to feel more productive and be happier?
Steve Caldwell: Imagine that.
Dr Noelle Nelson: Yeah, imagine that. There are companies that do that, and the answers are surprising. They are rarely things like a free basketball court. But they are often things like wanting flex time, because when kids are sick their head is with their kids. It isn’t at work, and if they can be home where their child is and both tend to their child and do their work, they can relax.
Steve Caldwell: I’m just thinking about this idea of asking the employee. Why do you believe that in many businesses it never even occurs to leaders to ask their people. What’s going on when that happens?
Dr Noelle Nelson: They’re still stuck in the hierarchical structure, if you will, of business where everything goes from the top down. The leader creates the company, hires the higher levels and so forth, and everything goes down. But that’s not at all the way that companies these days are successful. Of course there is always a top leadership. But what is happening is much more collaborative, or you can think of it as sideways movement of connection instead of just a straight top to bottom. Leaders who are only used to the top to bottom, of course it doesn’t occur to them to ask the bottom. It’s like asking your dog what he wants to eat. Most people will not do that. They just feed the dog whatever is on sale at the supermarket. But some people do. Some people do actually ask the dog in a certain way. So it’s a really different way of looking at your business. Some people don’t like that. They don’t want to think their business is owned by the employees in any way, shape or form. They just want to think of employees – and pardon the expression — shut up and do your work.
Steve Caldwell: Yeah, I’ve worked in a number of organizations myself as I grew in my career and that really was the way that the entire culture was. It was, shut up and do what you are supposed to do. If we want your opinion, we’ll tell you what it is.
Dr Noelle Nelson: Exactly.
Steve Caldwell: They don’t even ask what my opinion is. If we want it we’ll just tell you what your opinion is and you just go with it. So, I totally get that. You mentioned a description, I’d like you to expound on just a minute because instead of hierarchical you called it sideways. I absolutely believe that’s part of what’s happening with the multiple generations that we have in the workplace today. But if you don’t mind, tell us your experience on some of the things you’ve seen and how this is actually playing out today in the workplace.
Dr Noelle Nelson: Well, interestingly enough, a lot of this change has been generated by the millennials, not the youngest but the younger generation of workers because now they’re going up into their 30’s. They would not accept the hierarchical — at all. Businesses didn’t want to lose the talent, because often millennials are very gifted in many different arenas, but especially technologically. This is why they didn’t want to lose the talent. So they were forced into paying attention to what this new generation wanted. What they found is that you work better together, In other words, your company functions better when it’s made up of allies rather made up of order takers or servants, if you will. I don’t know exactly what word applies here. So what happened is, interesting enough millennials are not averse to boomers. Millennials and boomers have a lot in common, and so millennials would look to the boomers as sort of mentors. They would pick their brain. How do you create a business relationship? And the boomers are saying, ‘I don’t know what to do with social media’ back at the millennials. So the generations started to, very loosely and almost in a scaredy-cat way, to work together a little bit. What companies found that if they allowed that and if they nurtured it that generational teams did a better job than teams that segregated themselves out. So then the other generations, generation X, got folded in, if you will. It’s really been kind of a slow, organic –for lack of a better word– or evolutionary process. The companies have allowed that have found that older workers are no longer feeling useless and non-productive, but on the contrary are feeling like they have something to contribute, even if it’s not in the certain areas. And the millennials, who can be really ‘squeaky’ and difficult sometimes, are finding more a balance by turning to the older generation and saying, ‘Help me out here.’ So it’s been a really interesting process to observe.
Steve Caldwell: Yeah, we’ve all learned a great thing in this process, and I think it’s a great thing to do. While you’re talking about this topic of multiple generations and the way that we’re educating one another in this thing, often times small business people will say, I don’t have a large company and I really don’t have access to all the other things –the bells and whistles that people have, so I don’t think any of this applies to me. What would you say to that?
Dr Noelle Nelson: I would say, you don’t need a single bell or whistle to appreciate your employee and I’ll give you the simplest, easiest and straight forward way to do it. It won’t cost you a dime. Simply catch your employee, whether you have one of them or ten thousand, catch your employee in the act of doing something right. Because most managers run around looking for what?
Steve Caldwell: What they did wrong.
Dr Noelle Nelson: That’s right. Employees are basically trained to be anxious, insecure and not volunteering any kind of differing opinion. So if you start roaming around catching them in the act of doing something right, and say, “Wow! That was impressive” or “Good job! Excellent work getting that widget out on time.” Whatever it may be. Being specific always helps. But more importantly, your employee is unlearning what they are used to. You are not just standing on their shoulder to see if they messed up again. They start to realize you might like what they are doing. Well, there’s nothing better to encourage engagement than to feel that your efforts are valued. That’s not costing a dime.
Steve Caldwell: Yes, actually give them a compliment.
Dr Noelle Nelson: Yes, that’s not costing a dime. I’ve repeated this because there’s so many times, Steve, that the number one reason given by the Department of State for employees to quit is not their poor pay check but it’s lack of appreciation. The number one reason. It hurts my heart because — and I’m speaking to those businesses that don’t have extra budgets and so forth — it doesn’t cost a dime to catch an employee in the act of doing something right.
Steve Caldwell: Yeah — I’m not going to make excuses because I absolutely agree with you, and I see this same thing over and over again. I know myself, Dr. Nelson, that when I got my first job I actually had the worst possible thing demonstrated for me. I had a boss who did what he called ‘The walk around.’ He did the walk around and he’d walk around through the business. His sole purpose for walking around was to find out who is not doing what they were supposed to be doing and correct them — and most of the time not very nicely. I’m going to tell you, I think that so many people have actually seen that demonstrated more often. I agree with you that people don’t feel appreciated and their boss just doesn’t connect with them. I find some symptoms that seem to be prevalent. I want to know your take on this. A lot of this not taking time with people is that today in management they are doing what I call the ‘fireman mentality.’ They are over booked and run around like their hair is on fire.
Dr Noelle Nelson: Yes and frankly I think that because often business are trying to stream line things a little too much and the managers have more to do than human could accomplish. That being said, it doesn’t take anytime or effort to smile when you walk down the hall and to say hello. It doesn’t take any more time, although it takes a second more effort to remind yourself that for every three employees you find doing something wrong when you walk around you well damn well better find two who are doing something right.
Steve Caldwell: Absolutely.
Dr Noelle Nelson: That’s all it takes. So it doesn’t interfere with the enormity of tasks. But the other thing is that managers who are feeling the fireman mentality – and that’s a great way of putting it – managers who are feeling that would do really well to take about a minute every hour to simply breathe.
Steve Caldwell: Amen to that.
Dr Noelle Nelson: Just sit at your desk and take three or four a nice, deep breaths.
Steve Caldwell: It’s almost as if when they walk in the door that they are on edge until the time they walk out of the door.
Dr Noelle Nelson: Actually, they do feel that way, and it’s not a healthy way to live.
Steve Caldwell: It’s not only a very unhealthy way to live, it’s a very unhealthy way lead people. People cannot respect you if, in fact, you are always that edgy guy. They are always going to be uncomfortable even though they may not know why they are uncomfortable.
Dr Noelle Nelson: Let me give you a very interesting little factoid. Did you know that from your heart emanates electrical energy which is measureable to about 10 to 14 feet from the position of your heart within your body? Anybody who is within 10 to 14 feet of you is going to feel your energy. Not consciously, but they are going to feel it as an electrical impulse. The manager who is walking around in fireman mode is going to be exuding, if you will, that frantic, frenetic, anxious energy to anybody within 10 to 14 feet. That means the overall electrical impulse energy in the department is going to be on super high. Not good for anybody. Nobody works well in an anxious state and that’s what the fireman mentality creates.
Steve Caldwell: Wow, I didn’t know that, and thank you so much for sharing it. I also want to point out that I don’t think we realize how much this comes across to our customers when we’re that way, do we?
Dr Noelle Nelson: Of course it does, yes. That electrical impulse is going out there no matter who you are interacting with.
Steve Caldwell: Dr Nelson, I got to share this one quick story with you. This past week I had a phone appointment with a manager. I had a problem with this particular company and the person I’d been dealing with had not been able to solve the issues. So I escalated it to the manager and they set an appointment 3 or 4 days in advance, so we were clearly trying to clear time on the calendar to have a conversation. When the manager called me it was quite apparent that this person was running around with their hair was on fire. I could feel that energy you’re talking about. It was so prevalent to me. I happened to pick up on it, which I’m glad I did, and I said, “Hey, how’s your day going?” and the person said, “Well I’m just so busy. I have to admit, I was in a meeting that ran over. We had this appointment and I just told them, “I’ve got to go. I have an appointment.” So I ran out of the meeting and called you immediately.
Dr Noelle Nelson: And you know, that person must have been shocked that you even ask.
Steve Caldwell: They were very shocked. I simply said at that point, well, we’ve got plenty of time right now. Why don’t you take a deep breath and let’s both relax a little. Then we can get into our conversation. I think I made that person wonder what was going on with this guy!
Dr Noelle Nelson: Now that’s great.
Steve Caldwell: It makes so much sense to me now, when I have clearly seen this played over and over in business. People are just too busy. Now, you made a comment that I’d like you to expound on for just a minute in you don’t mind. On you website – and I just love what you say — you have three statements. You say, you matter, you count, and you are important. Now, I love that and I would like for you to share from your heart, why would you put that for people to see?
Dr Noelle Nelson: Because I think it is the single most important thing that people don’t hear and need to hear, and I don’t care from which source.
Steve Caldwell: That they need to hear it.
Dr Noelle Nelson: Yep! People need to know, profoundly, that they matter and that their existence is not without purpose. Their very presence on the planet matters. They count. Each one of us is a unique individual contributing something unique to our time, to our world, and they are important. People don’t think about themselves as being important, but everything you say and do has impact on another human being, or on the environment, or on your pet, or whatever. You are important, and if we all have healthier self esteem, if we all understand without being arrogant. It’s not that I matter more than you do. It’s not that at all. It’s a simple fact of existence, like the trees matter, or the water, or whatever matters. You count. You are important. When people take that to heart Steve, their life changes.
Steve Caldwell: How wonderful! Well Dr. Nelson, I want you to know that today, you have mattered, and you have counted, and you have played an important part in all of us in leadership roles today by sharing your wisdom. I just want to thank you. Thank you for being so open and honest about it.
Dr Noelle Nelson: Well thank you. It’s been a pleasure Steve.
Steve Caldwell: I want to encourage everybody to check out your website. It is www.noellenelson.com. I’ll put a link there in the podcast. Do you have any special ways you’d like for people to connect with you?
Dr Noelle Nelson: I am sort of everywhere – on Twitter and Facebook and everything else. But email is wonderful and my email address is simply [email protected]. Visit the website, give us some feedback and all that good stuff.
Steve Caldwell: Thank you so very much for being our guest today and I wish you all of the success in the world. Thank you for sharing your life with us today.
Dr Noelle Nelson: Thank you Steve.
Dr. Nelson mentioned in her interview a study regarding how our hearts and brains actually communicate when we interact with others. Click this link to review the study: http://www.noellenelson.com/The_Science_of_Appreciation.cfm
